Learning History and Create a better Future
By Qian Zhen Pei Andi China Investment; Photo by Embassy of the Republic of Rwanda in China
——Interview with H. E. Mr. Charles Kayonga, Ambassador of the Republic of Rwanda in China
● The start of traged
● Devastating Strik
● Remember history，looking to the future
● Rejuvenation policy brings light
● Win-Win Cooperation，Optimize Investment
On April 7, the commemoration of the 24th anniversary of the Rwandan genocide with the theme of remembers, unity, and rejuvenation was held at the Rwandan Embassy in China. In order to express our grief on the deceased and in order to draw lessons from history and create a better future, our magazine recently conducted an exclusive interview with the Rwandan ambassador to China, Mr. Charles Kayonga.
China Investment: April 7 is the 24th anniversary of the Rwandan genocide. Thank you Mr. Ambassador for an exclusive interview on this topic.
Charles Kayonga: Welcome and thank you for your attention to this incident.
The start of tragedy
China Investment: Could you explain the reason of Rwandan genocide?
Charles Kayonga: The Rwandan genocide is officially called the genocide against the Tutsi. It was a Hutu’s political strategy which was for the Hutu’s to massacre the Tutsi. It began with colonialism. After independence, Rwandan leaders proceeded to use it to consolidate their hold on power. It is the product of the rulers' greed and political shortsightedness. The Tutsi once ruled Rwanda, but this is just a Tutsi clan, not all Tutsi rule. My parents for example were ordinary Tutsi and not ruling class. However, this did not save them from being sent into exile in the 1960s. The colonists divided the Rwandans into Tutsi and Hutu for their rule.
⬆H. E. Mr. Charles Kayonga, Ambassador of the Republic of Rwanda in China
China Investment: What is the fundamental difference between Tutsi and Hutu?
Charles Kayonga: It's hard to make a clear distinction. Rwanda used to be a united nation. Before the colonists arrived, they lived together and engaged in different economic activities. In Rwanda, there are Tutsi, Hutu and Twa people; Tutsi were cattle keepers, Hutu were farming and Twa hunting, respectively. For example, my father raised cattle, he got food from Hutu neighbors by exchanging food with milk, and the Twa people brought honey from the forest. For hundreds of years, we have cooperated with each other so that we intermarried and mixed with each other, ate the same food, spoke the same language, worshiped the same God, and danced the same dance. We live on the same hillside; the culture and language unite us. Even if I tell you that I am a Tutsi, you cannot recognize it exactly. There is also an interesting division: Some people say that if a person owns ten cows, he is a Tutsis, and less than ten cows are Hutus. You may have been originally Hutu. Once you became rich, you became a Tutsi. Before the arrival of the colonists, social mobility was rapid and there was no conflict between the Hutu and Tutsis.
In the Kingdom period, the King was not identified as a Tutsi, he was Rwandan and lived above all the tribes and protected the country and people as a whole. Our kings was very strong. They succeeded in preventing the Arabs from entering Rwanda and protecting the country from the slave trade. The organization and structure mechanism of Rwanda was quite developed in those days, almost the same as that of the European empire, apart from the technological development.
⬆Interview with H. E. Mr. Charles Kayonga, Ambassador of the Republic of Rwanda in China
China Investment: What happened during the independence of Rwanda? What is the situation after independence?
Charles Kayonga: The colonists initially supported the Tutsis and tried to carry out their rule through the Tutsi. However, Tutsi people did not want to be stooges, they wanted independence. So, Belgium wanted to give power to Hutus. They thought that Hutu would be more obedient.
After independence, the ruling party implemented a segregation policy. Tutsis were not allowed to go to school, join the military, or conduct business. Hutus control power.
China Investment: Before the independence, did the Tutsis have implemented similar discrimination policies?
Charles Kayonga: No, before the arrival of the colonists, the Hutu people also joined the army. When the Tutsi people became king, both the Tutsi and the Hutu became chiefs. The real conflict came from independence. This was the main reason for the massacre in the 1990s. From preparations in the 1960s to the 1990s, they used 30 years of preparation time to instill hatred. In the 1960s, my parents fled to Uganda to escape the pursuit. At that time, there were Hutu people who said, "Why they killed you, you are my friend, we grew up together." In many places, Tutsi people were protected by their neighbors at the time. By 1994, Tutsi could not easily flee because neighbors had become killers.
During that period, the whole educational system was used to serve the Holocaust. They said the Tutsi had ruled over Hutu and yet had originated from outside Rwandan may be from North Africa, from Ethiopia and that they should be killed. Later there was introduced the Hutu ten commandments: don't marry the Tutsi, do not sympathize with the Tutsi people, they are enemies, they should be killed.
In 1994, people who had been brainwashed had already had a sense of slaughter. They believed that the other side was not human beings, but tailed animals. The confusion of rulers made people ignorant, so that they could not realize the real problems, such as poverty and uder-development. The Tutsi has become a scapegoat for the poor and backward. They started with those Tutsi who were still in exile in Rwanda. One of their motives was to acquire their property.
China Investment: This year’s Rwandan genocide commemoration was marked with the theme of “remember, uniting, and rejuvenating.” What is the impressed meaning of this place?
Charles Kayonga: The commemorative event emphasizes the “Remember”，it is to take this opportunity to let the international community reflect on their failure to solve such problems as the unpunished and irresponsible behavior of the brutal compatriots.
⬆ Family photographs of some of those who died are on display in the Kigali Genocide Memorial Center in Kigali, Rwanda. Net Photo
Devastating Strike
China Investment: What are the historical consequences of the Rwandan massacre?
Charles Kayonga: Very serious. Since the 1960s, the social foundation of Rwanda has been terrible. For example, from the 1960s to 1994, we had less than 3,000 university graduates.
Because of racial killings, more than one million Tutsis were killed, while even more people become killers, this was a mass crime. The victims suffered losses, the survivors were also traumatized, and the country lost even those that became killers since they were now neither productive. When the regime was defeated, they also took away national treasure including foreign reserves. They also forced a large part of the population to flee the country as a strategy to cover themselves while running away but also to use these refugees to make a comeback at a later date.
⬆ French forces provided both military training and arms to Interahamwe militias. Net Photo
Remember history，looking to the future
China Investment: As you know, China has the Chinese Dream. What similarities does it have in Rwanda? What is the Rwandan dream? What’s the plan in the future? What do you want to achieve?
Charles Kayonga: It’s very surprising because we have the same dream. China’s dream is by 2020 to eliminate poverty, to achieve a moderate level of development in all respects. Then in 2049, you want to achieve the modern socialist country. In Rwanda, by 2020 also, we aim for becoming a middle-income country. A middle level development according to international standards. Middle level development that is knowledge-based and service-oriented. That’s why we are educating the youth. We, in education now, have free 12-year education. We have scientific and technological education. Enrolment is very high in primary and secondary school. By 2050, we must achieve a high standard of living in all aspects, including quality of life, technological development, and health facilities.
We are now in a transitional period from 2020 to 2050. Since 2017, along with President Kagame's seven-year presidential term, we have started our first seven-year plan. This period is of great significance not only for Rwanda but also for Africa, because this is the first decade of the Africa 2063 agenda. According to the agenda, there are flagship project on the aspect of numerous infrastructure, energy, education, health, and new communications during the decade.
China Investment: So where does the money come from. How can you support this huge expense?
Charles Kayonga: Yes, well, we don’t use a lot of money. We don’t abuse money. We make sure money is used effectively. We fight corruption. So, corruption is not a big problem in our country. We continue to cooperate with international financial institutions but we are increasingly generating financial means from within and this capacity will continue to rise.
Rejuvenation policy brings light
China Investment: There is an impression that after the genocide, Rwanda has made a big change and made great progress. How was your contry achived that?
Charles Kayonga: This is what could have happened at independence. This happened because of leadership. The most important factor is leadership. We have a good president and very wise. He looks very far. We had to first of all unite the people after the devastation. You are uniting people who have hated each other for 30 years who have killed each other. You are uniting the killers and the victims. It was not very easy. There must be a political decision to try it. People wanted revenge. The orders were that if any sought revenge, they would also be killed. Revenge was stopped.
This policy was very successful and achieved the goal of unity and reconciliation. It tells people to step out of suffering and find ways to survive. We cannot leave our neighbors, so we must be tolerant of each other. At the same time, justice is also very important. One of the important reasons for the massacre is that the persons who committed the crime has not been investigated and punished. Those who slaughtered the Tutsi in the 1960s were rewarded for the massacre, but they became the leaders of the community and very important members of the ruling party. In 1994, they became planners and implementers of the Holocaust and again murdered Tutsi. So, it was important to punish culprits. However, there was a problem. There were too many cases of genocide criminals. Therefore, the government adopted a traditional and pragmatic approach. In the olden days in Rwanda people would get together if there were disputes in the village. The villagers would sit on the lawn under the trees as witnesses and judges of cases. The wise old man in the village would decide on the case. We used this method in the trial of the Holocaust. Most of the trials are at the grassroots level. The purpose is not to punish or retaliate, but to return the society to normality. The criminals accounted for their actions in the face of the people, apologized to the people and requested forgiveness, and offered compensation to the victims. For example, I killed your husband. I sincerely repent of my crimes and I am willing to work in my own land and also to help you in your own field part of the time.
Win-Win Cooperation，Optimize Investment
China Investment: What is the Ambassador's assessment of the cooperation between China and Rwanda?
Charles Kayonga: China as playing an important role in the development of Rwanda and even other African countries. Rwanda has improved a lot and is becoming a model of development for many African countries and cooperation with China not only on economic sector but also on the political level has been an important factor in the positive changes in Rwanda. Indeed, China-Africa cooperation has greatly improved the status of the African continent since 2000. The implementation of the Action Plan for the Forum on China-Africa Cooperation (2016-2018) will bring greater changes. Both Chinese and African leaders are eagerly looking forward to advancing the next stage of cooperation after the September summit.
⬆ Late Captain Mbaye Diagne, the Senegalese Army officer who saved hundreds of Tutsi in 1994 Genocide. Net Photo
China Investment: What do you think Rwanda has favorable conditions to attract Chinese entrepreneurs to invest in?
Charles Kayonga: We welcome and encourage Chinese entrepreneurs to invest in Rwanda. Rwanda offers a very good investment environment that is politically stable and sustainable and with a sound legal framework that allows commercial prosperity and development. Integration into the East African Market and COMESA compensates for the smaller Rwandan market while the possibility of the African Continental Free Trade Area will make doing business even better.
We also have incentives. For example, tax relief, free flow of capital, and we also have advantages in the labor force. Rwanda emphasizes science education, builds many science and technology schools, conducts numerous international cooperation, and has established many scientific research centers. We encourage technological innovation and focus on cultivating young people. At the same time, we also open borders to neighboring countries and the entire world. If Rwanda does not have corresponding talents, it can be easily introduced from other places.
China Investment: Does Rwanda have some special areas welcome Chinese investment?
Charles Kayonga: I think it is all areas of industry. Today we are still importing many industrial products. And Rwanda’s largest importing country is China. We import almost every commodity in our daily lives and spend a lot of money. The government’s policy now encourages Rwanda’s industrial development, especially labor-intensive industries. Therefore we welcome investors in all sectors whether in agriculture processing, construction materials production, consumption materials, and electronics among others.
中文版：
卢旺达现在处于从2020年到2050年的转型期，从2017年开始，伴随着卡加梅总统的第二个七年任期，卢旺达开启了第一个七年计划
文I 本刊特约对话嘉宾 钱镇 中共中央党校国际战略研究院 本刊记者 裴安迪 图片提供I 卢旺达驻华大使馆
——专访卢旺达驻华大使查尔斯·卡勇加（H. E. Mr. Charles Kayonga）
● 毁灭性的打击
● 铭记历史 展望未来
● 复兴政策带来曙光
3月7日，以铭记、团结、复兴为主题的卢旺达大屠杀24周年纪念活动在卢旺达驻华使馆举办。为了表达我们对逝者的哀思，为了汲取历史教训，共创美好未来，近日，本刊记者对卢旺达驻华大使查尔斯·卡勇加先生进行专访。
《中国投资》： 4月7号是卢旺达大屠杀24周年纪念日，感谢大使先生针对这一话题接受本刊专访。
查尔斯·卡勇加：欢迎你们的到来，也感谢你们对这一事件的关注。
悲剧的发生
《中国投资》：首先，请大使讲讲为什么卢旺达大屠杀这样的悲剧会发生？
查尔斯·卡勇加：卢旺达大屠杀是胡图人针对图西人的大屠杀，是胡图人的政治战略。最初源于殖民主义者的策略，而后出自独立后卢旺达领导人对权力的垄断，它是统治者的贪婪和政治短视的产物。图西族曾经统治卢旺达，但这只是一小部分图西人，一个氏族，并不是全体图西人的统治。我的父母就是普通的图西人并非统治阶级。殖民者为了统治的需要，把卢旺达人分成图西人和胡图人。
《中国投资》：图西人和胡图人的区别究竟是什么？
查尔斯·卡勇加：这很难区别，卢旺达曾经是一个团结的民族，在殖民者到来前，他们生活在一起，从事不同的经济活动。卢旺达有图西人、胡图人和瓦特人，图西族放牛，胡图族种地，图瓦族狩猎采集，分工非常和谐。比如，我爸爸养牛，他从胡图人邻居那里获取食物，交换给胡图人牛奶，瓦特人则从森林里带来蜂蜜。几百年来，我们就这样互相合作，我们彼此通婚，相互混居，吃同样的食物，说同样的语言，崇拜同样的上帝，跳着同样的舞蹈。我们生活在同一座山坡上，文化和语言将我们联合在一起。即使我告诉你，我是图西人，你也看不出来。也有一种有趣的划分法：有人说，如果一个人拥有十头母牛，他就是图西人，少于十头牛，就是胡图人。你可能原本是胡图人，一变富，就成图西人了。殖民者到来之前，社会流动性很强，胡图人和图西人之间并没有冲突。
⬆本刊记者专访卢旺达驻华大使查尔斯·卡勇加先生（H. E. Mr. Charles Kayonga）
在王国时期，国王没有被确定为图西人，他是卢旺达人，居住在所有部落之上，并且保护了国家和整个人民。我们的国王非常强大，他们成功阻止了阿拉伯人进入卢旺达，保护了这个国家免受奴隶贸易之苦。当年卢旺达王国的组织和结构机制相当发达，与欧洲王国的结构几乎一样。
《中国投资》：卢旺达在独立期间发生了什么？独立后，情况如何呢？
查尔斯·卡勇加：殖民者起初支持图西人，试图通过图西人实现他们的统治。但是图西人不愿意做任人摆布的傀儡，他们希望独立。于是比利时就想把权力交给胡图人了，他们以为，胡图人会更听话。
独立后，执政者推行了隔离政策。图西人不被允许上学、参军、经商，胡图人垄断了权力。
《中国投资》：独立前，图西人没有执行过类似的歧视政策吗？
查尔斯·卡勇加：没有，殖民者到来前，胡图人也有参军的。在图西人作国王时，既有图西族做酋长，也有胡图人做酋长。真正的冲突源自独立后，这是上世纪90年代大屠杀的主要原因。从1960年一直准备到1990年，他们做了30年的准备时间给人们灌输仇恨，在1960年，我的父母为了躲避追杀，逃到乌干达。当时，还会有胡图人说，“他们为什么杀你，你是我的朋友，我们一起长大的。”图西人得到保护，有安全感。到了1994年，图西人无法轻易的逃离，因为邻居们成了杀人者。
那段时期，整个教育被用来服务于大屠杀。他们说图西人不是卢旺达人，它们来自北非，也许是来自埃塞俄比亚，他们应该被杀掉。后来又有了胡图十戒：不要与图西人结婚，不要同情图西人，他们是敌人，应该杀了他们等。
1994年，被洗脑的民众已经有了屠杀意识，他们认为，交战的对方不是人类，是长着尾巴的动物。统治者的迷惑让民众变得无知，使他们无法意识到真正的问题所在，比如贫穷和发展。图西族成为贫困和落后的替罪羊。他们对那些还在卢旺达的、没流亡的图西人下手，动机之一是获取他们的财产。
《中国投资》：今年的大屠杀纪念活动以“铭记、团结、复兴”为主题，这里所讲的铭记，意义何在？
查尔斯·卡勇加：纪念活动强调铭记，是想通过这个机会，让国际社会反思他们在解决诸如此类对残暴同胞行为的不惩治、不负责等问题上的失败。
⬆卢旺达驻华大使查尔斯·卡勇加先生（H. E. Mr. Charles Kayonga）
毁灭性的打击
《中国投资》：卢旺达大屠杀造成的历史后果是什么？
查尔斯·卡勇加：非常严重。从1960年代开始，卢旺达的社会基础就很糟。比如，从1960年代到1994年，我们只有不到3000名大学毕业生。
由于种族仇杀，一百多万图西人被杀，同时使一百多万人成为杀手，杀一个人时有好多人参与，这是群众性犯罪。被害人蒙受损失，幸存者也蒙受心理创伤，杀人者因其成为凶手也遭受损失，战争毁了这个国家，他们失去了一切。发动大屠杀的政权被击败时，他们再次摧毁这个国家。他们裹挟大量民众逃亡，以此作为战略来掩护自己，并企图利用这些难民，以图卷土重来。
铭记历史 展望未来
《中国投资》：众所周知，中国有中国梦。它在卢旺达有什么相似之处？什么是卢旺达的梦想？贵国未来的计划是什么？
查尔斯·卡勇加：中国梦是在2020年之前消灭贫穷，全面建成小康社会，到2049年，建成现代化社会主义国家。巧合的是，我们有同样的梦，我们也有一个2020年的目标和2050发展规划。2020年的目标是在2020年成为中等收入国家，这个中等收入是按国际标准的，它是基于知识的，是服务业导向的。所以我们在提供12年免费教育，包括了科学和技术教育，小学和中学的入学率非常高。到2050年，我们要在所有方面都达到高标准的生活，包括生活质量，技术发展，卫生设施。
我们现在处于从2020年到2050年的转型期，从2017年开始，伴随着卡加梅的第二个七年总统任期，我们开启了第一个七年计划。这一个时期不仅对卢旺达很有意义，对非洲也是如此，因为这是非洲2063议程的第一个十年，根据议程，在这十年中，有众多基础设施、能源、教育、健康、通信的旗舰项目。
《中国投资》：这里应该需要大量的资金吧？你们的资金从哪里来？
查尔斯·卡勇加：是的，但是所有的资金都要有自己的用处，教育、健康、农业，这些都是发展的基础支柱。我们没用太多的钱，我们确保经费被有效使用，我们与腐败作战，腐败在我们国家不是个严重的问题。
⬆1994年7月3日，胡图难民迎接法国士兵抵达布塔雷外的营地
复兴政策带来曙光
《中国投资》：大屠杀过后，卢旺达在较短的时间内，实现了社会团结和进步，发展与繁荣，在非洲国家中独树一帜，你们是如何做到的呢？
查尔斯·卡勇加：这些变化本该在独立后就发生。好的变化源于卡加梅总统的远见卓识和卢旺达人民坚韧的精神。我们有个优秀的总统，他非常聪明并且非常有远见。大灾难之后，我们首先设法团结彼此仇恨了30年之久的民众，团结杀人者和受害者，这很不容易。需要有政治决断力，政府的法令规定，如果有人寻求报复，就要被杀头，于是报复被阻止了。我们还形成了具有广泛基础的政府，其中包括胡图人和图西人，甚至包括一些温和派的前政府官员。比如，解放后，卢旺达的第一任总统就是胡图人，总理是反对派里的胡图人，胡图人还出任外交部长、财政部长等重要职位。
这个政策非常成功。达到了团结、和解的目的。它告诉人们，要走出苦难，要想办法继续生存。我们不可能离开邻居，所以必须彼此宽容。同时，正义也很重要。导致大屠杀的一个重要原因是：犯了罪的人没得到追究和惩罚。在1960年代屠杀图西族的人，因为屠杀而得到奖赏，反而成为地方领导人甚至执政党的权势人物。1994年，他们成为大屠杀的计划者和实施者，再度杀人。所以要追究他们的过去的恶行。但是，大屠杀的案件实在太多，于是，政府借助传统的务实的处理办法。在王国时代，如果村子里有了纠纷，人们就聚到一起。村民坐在树下的草坪上作目击者。村里的智慧老人断案，在大屠杀案件审理中我们沿用了这一方法。审判大多在基层，目的不是为了惩罚、报复，而是让社会恢复常态。罪犯当着民众的面交代自己的行为，向民众道歉并请求宽恕，并向受害者提出补偿。比如，我杀了你的丈夫，我诚恳悔罪，并愿意在自己地里干活之外，帮着干你地里的活。
合作共赢，优化投资
《中国投资》：大使对中国与卢旺达之间的合作有什么评价？
查尔斯·卡勇加：中国在卢旺达乃至其他非洲国家的发展中扮演着重要角色。中非合作自2000年起就已经大大改善了非洲大陆的状况，《中非合作论坛行动计划 (2016—2018年)》的实施会带来更大的改变。中国及非洲领导人都热切期待着在今年9月的峰会后推进下一阶段的合作。
《中国投资》：您觉得卢旺达有哪些有利条件吸引中国企业家投资？
查尔斯·卡勇加：我们欢迎和鼓励中国人到卢旺达投资。按照传统做法，投资人愿意选择国家大、人口多、自然资源丰富的地方投资。这种观念应该转变，要更多关注投资对象国政治是否稳定、是否可持续，其法律框架是不是允许商业繁荣发展，是不是便于开拓市场。卢旺达地处非洲中部，可以便利的抵达周边各国。从卢旺达驾车，最多两个小时就到了坦桑尼亚，不到一个小时到了布隆迪，到刚果和乌干达距离也差不多。卢旺达还是好几个非洲区域合作组织的成员国，在非洲，区域整合的进展也很快，甚至包括非洲整合。卢旺达是个桥梁，连接着众多非洲国家。我们和其它非洲国家的文化联系也很密切。我们能讲东非流行的英语、中非流行的法语以及作为非洲未来语言的斯瓦希里语。
我们还有激励机制。比如减免税赋，资本的自由流动，我们在劳动力方面也有优势。卢旺达强调科学教育，建了许多科技学校，开展了众多国际合作，设立了许多科学研究中心。我们鼓励技术创新，重视培养年轻人。同时，我们还向周边国家和整个世界开放边境，如果卢旺达没有相应的人才，也可以便利地从别的地方引进。
《中国投资》：有哪些特别的领域欢迎中国的投资？
查尔斯·卡勇加：我想是工业，工业的各个领域。今天我们仍然在进口很多工业产品。并且，卢旺达最大的进口国就是中国，我们进口日常生活中的几乎所有商品，花了好多钱。现在政府的政策鼓励卢旺达的工业发展，特别是劳动密集型工业。（编辑：裴安迪）